I have said that Wife and I hardly fight any more -- because we more or less ignore each other -- and that's true. But also the fights we do have are a lot shorter than they used to be. And I find that my own style has changed -- depending on your point of view, I am either more belligerent or just less tolerant of bullshit.
Tonight, for example, I was caught short of time for making dinner so I heated up a Moroccan stew from last week, boiled rice to go with it, and presto – ready to eat. Well the boys complained. "Not zucchini again!" I reminded them that they had more or less liked it last week and in any event that was what I'd fixed. Wife made some kind of sideways comment -- I don't even remember what it was -- and then inserted a whole series of complaints about the fact that I have been buying rye bread in addition to whole wheat lately, to get a little variety. (Wife hates rye bread.)
Update on Tuesday, September 8: I now remember what she said that set off the conversation below. She commented on the ingredients she saw in the refrigerator that I had bought for a dinner later in the week, and told the boys that would be "even worse than the zucchini" ... thus setting the meal up for failure before it ever happened. Back to the original post now.
When dinner was over I motioned her into the bedroom, closed the door, and then said: "Listen. You undercut me in the area of food at every turn. If I make the same things I always make, you complain about dinner being boring. If I make something different for a change you complain about that. But you need to set a good example for the boys -- as it is, they figure that if you get to whine about the food then it's OK for them to whine about it too. And it's not. So you are not going to complain about the food any more. That's over. As long as I am doing the grocery shopping and I am cooking the meals, you are going to be pleasant about whatever I fix. Or if you don't want to do that, then you are free to find room in your monthly budget to buy your own food and fix it yourself. I'll still feed the boys, but we'll give you a special shelf of your own in the fridge and you can have what you like. We won't eat your food and you won't eat ours. Those are your choices."She responded by ringing various changes on "Why do you get to decide what we eat?"
Because I do the shopping and the cooking -- if you ever bothered to do either one, then you could buy and fix what you like.
"Everybody else in the house hates rye bread so why do we have to eat that and nothing else?"
I buy several different types of bread; and in fact Son 1 is merely indifferent to rye and Son 2 likes it as well as I do.
"No he doesn't -- Son 2 likes dark rye with cheese; other than that he hates rye. He's told me so."
Sure he's told you so ... because he figured out years ago that it's his job to look after you emotionally, so he just doesn't share his more general opinion with you. He tells you what he thinks you want to hear.
"Maybe he's just telling you what you want to hear!"
Well no, because I can watch his face and see him truly enjoy a lot of different foods. It's not about his words. Have you ever even seen Son 2's face?
Then she said something -- I forget what -- that led me to suggest to her there was another option besides buying her own food. She could find the money for an apartment.
"Why should I move instead of you?"
You'll pay the mortgage with what, exactly?
"If you divorce me you'll owe spousal support. And don't think you'll automatically get the boys, no matter what D has been telling you!"
D? What does she have to do with this?
"Oh, don't think I didn't see the two of you sitting close together staying up late when she was here ... talking together about me. I'm sure she told you that you'd automatically get the boys, but you'd better not believe it."
Actually I don't think anything is automatic once you step into a courtroom. Why? Do you think it's automatic the other direction?
"Well ...."
Because I assume that once you step into court all bets are off. I take nothing for granted there. You might want to think about that before you get too cocky.
Pulling the discussion back to food, I reminded her again that she could always do the shopping if she wanted to.
"Yes, and then you'll go over the receipt line by line to decide if you want to pay your share or not."
That's true, because I don't want to pay for the next time you buy five pounds of broccoli that we will never eat before it rots. But you have the same privilege when I shop.
"So I could refuse to pay for the rye bread if I want?"
You could. I don't know what I would do next, if you did. And so I might suggest that you think for a while if that's something you really want to do, before doing it. Anyway, that's all I had to say.
And I stood up from the bed and walked out.
I have admitted to you all that the Judith Wallerstein book spooked me, and that I became very quiet and thoughtful when I read that if you can choose and your kids are in pre-adolescence (as ours both are) then maybe you want to think about staying together "for the sake of the kids" just another few years. But then we have a night like this and I just can't believe that I would ever have any doubts about moving forward. I am certain that when Wallerstein talks about staying together during these years to preserve a stable atmosphere, this atmosphere is not what she has in mind.
I probably am becoming more belligerent. I know I am becoming more intolerant.
What a mess. I hope your day is better than that.
Oh man! I might be an ass for thinking this, but as long as you didn't yell, I thought what you said was marvelous.
ReplyDeleteI get fussy when my mom cooks brown/mixed rice, but who am I to complain really? We can be such ungrateful little pickles.
So does Wife know that you're contemplating divorce or is it often used as a casual, bitter threat?
Hi Jane,
ReplyDeleteNo, I didn't yell. And thank you for the kind words. As for your question, I have not said in so many words that I am contemplating divorce yet, but it wouldn't be hard to figure out ... the distance between us is greater than it has ever been before. Wife has often used divorce as a casual, bitter threat. I didn't used to, but I think I'm changing in that regard too.
Wow, I know how all that feels. The father of my children never openly criticized my meals but would say things like 'And what is it that I am eating?' before allowing the children to leave the table before their plates were even half empty, or sitting and spoon feeding it to them. They were 12 at the time!
ReplyDeleteNow that we are separated, I have said that I will continue to shop and clean but he insists on also shopping. He buys lots of things that he likes - but the children dont - in quantities that can never be eaten so most gets thrown away.
As to when you should make the decision to separate, I shall repeat here what I said on the other post:
From bitter experience, you will know when the time is right.
It is when you can take no more. When your children show you the same lack of respect as your spouse.
Is it better to stop before all that happens and before they are teenagers? For me, no. I think to have gone before would have been devastating for my children. As teenagers, they are now capable of understanding that their parents are better off apart and that everyone has a better relationship as a result
As the author said 11/12 is probably the worst time because they are aware but so vulnerable. Once 14/15, they have matured sufficiently to be able to analyse events better. It still isnt easy but, providing both parents stay within easy access and dont indulge in backbiting, there is hope that it is possible to maintain their equilibrium.
I think the problems may come when you start bringing new partners into the equation...
Hi Joanna,
ReplyDeleteBuying in quantities so large that most of it gets thrown away sounds exactly like how Wife shops for food. And yes, the comments about the meals are similar ... rarely directly complaining, but sideways digs.
The "when to divorce" question is tougher, though. After watching the dynamic at this meal I described ... after watching how Wife and I went into the back room to fight and the boys calmly rode it out, picking up their own dishes and going back to their homework ... I start to wonder how much will really change? Sure, we'll no longer live physically under the same roof. But at an emotional level we are already totally disconnected. Plus there are plenty of days and nights when Wife is completely out of it, whether with headaches or exhaustion or medication or something. How much different will it be simply having her somewhere else? (Assuming I get custody, I mean. And I suppose anything is possible.)
I'm afraid I don't show a lot of respect for Wife any more. I used to try, really I did, long after she had ceased to earn any of it, long after she stopped contributing in any productive way to the family, long after her orders to the boys became arbitrary and unpredictable. But it has just gotten too hard to keep up. And that's another reason I think it may be time, even given their ages. It cannot be good for them to live with parents that have and show no respect for each other, can it? Wouldn't separation be better than teaching them that this is what marriage is all about? Or am I just rationalizing to make it easier on myself? That's all too possible.
Other partners .... Well, at least they already know D, because she has visited us twice in the last year. But how long to wait before letting them know that we are romantically involved ...? That I really, really don't know.
Wow -- your marriage sounds very similar to how mine was before I told my husband I wanted a divorce. We didn't have the same issues with food (because in my house, if I'm cooking and you're criticizing, you're cooking your own g-d food and that's it), but there was constant undermining.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read back far enough into your blog to know how old your kids are, but I've always subscribed to the theory that "kids would rather be *from* a broken home than in one."
I wish you good luck in sorting it all out.
Hosea,
ReplyDeleteOf course the argument was really not about Rye bread. That was just the excuse.
When I had my affair with Mark, I was always angry at my husband. I think affairs naturally breed contempt towards our spouses on an unconscious level. Because I think we need to hate the people we hurt.
Dharma -- The boys are 11 and 12 (almost 13). And I sure hope you are right about "from" vs "in". I think the home we have today is already broken in many ways ....
ReplyDeleteAmy -- Hmmm. Could be. I wonder if that is why Wife has had so much contempt for me for so many years ... as a defense mechanism to excuse her several affairs
I must admit I have not read your entire blog. How many affairs has your wife had?
ReplyDeleteFive that I know about that have been physically consummated.
ReplyDeleteMore if you count the ones that were purely emotional involvements (though those can be just as destructive).
There might be some I don't know about, I guess, but I developed a pretty good nose for being able to tell.
Wow. Do you have an open marriage? And, if not, how did you deal with these affair emotionally?
ReplyDeleteAnswer to the first question: No.
ReplyDeleteAnswer to the second question: Well, that's what I'm doing here. I'd suggest starting first with http://hoseasblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/setting-stage.html and then with http://hoseasblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/is-it-infidelity-or-polyamory.html
After that, ... gosh, if I haven't bored you to tears then feel free to browse around ....