[Excerpted from an online chat last October, which I only found out about last night.]
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: [He has just been discussing sex with his brother's wife, apparently in India.] I hope you are open-minded enough to appreciate all that we have talked about today, Babe?
Wife: Of course. I'm not easily shocked. But sex between in-laws is just taboo here. Too bad. At one point my brother-in-law [i.e., Brother] and I were very close. It could have been more than it was, but there was a lot of pressure for us not even to be touching, like hugging or hand-holding.
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: I have no taboos about sex with, say, a sister-in-law or mother-in-law! A sister, I probably wouldn't ....
Wife: I'm fine with that. I know a father-son couple, which breaks ALL taboos -- but they so clearly adore each other that I don't take offense at it. [I think she is talking about the father and the son from the Boyfriend 5 saga. I thought she had finally figured out that was all a fantasy, but maybe it makes a better story this way.]
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: Though while playing doctor, my touching my sister's breasts or vagina, or her touching my penis, would be OK.
Wife: But that's usually a childish game. Among adults, I don't know. I have a very close relationship with my younger son, who still likes to sleep with me when his father is travelling. There's nothing sexual between us, but in another society I think there would be.
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: I would not be shocked if you had more than anything with your son, though in American society I wouldn't expect it, in the Judeo-Christian environment ....
Wife: Right. And so he wouldn't allow it, even though I know he would want it. Too bad, because we're so close that I think it would just make us closer. But all western psychology says that it would ruin his maturation process and interfere with his ability to have relationships with other women later.
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: I think this about ruining his maturation process may be a bit too far fetched. If it were permissible, would you suck your son? Animals do it in nature!!
Wife: Of course it's unreasonable. Hosea says that Son 2 wouldn't be able to separate a mother-figure from a lover-figure. I doubt that. Would I suck him? Yes, or fondle him, and vice versa. Personally, I wonder where better kids are supposed to learn than with the people they trust the most. It's not that it would be so very erotic for me, but that it would be very comfortable and loving. And yes, incest is completely natural in nature.
....
Is this fantasy or delusion? I wish I knew. I'm kind of rattled.
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: [He has just been discussing sex with his brother's wife, apparently in India.] I hope you are open-minded enough to appreciate all that we have talked about today, Babe?
Wife: Of course. I'm not easily shocked. But sex between in-laws is just taboo here. Too bad. At one point my brother-in-law [i.e., Brother] and I were very close. It could have been more than it was, but there was a lot of pressure for us not even to be touching, like hugging or hand-holding.
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: I have no taboos about sex with, say, a sister-in-law or mother-in-law! A sister, I probably wouldn't ....
Wife: I'm fine with that. I know a father-son couple, which breaks ALL taboos -- but they so clearly adore each other that I don't take offense at it. [I think she is talking about the father and the son from the Boyfriend 5 saga. I thought she had finally figured out that was all a fantasy, but maybe it makes a better story this way.]
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: Though while playing doctor, my touching my sister's breasts or vagina, or her touching my penis, would be OK.
Wife: But that's usually a childish game. Among adults, I don't know. I have a very close relationship with my younger son, who still likes to sleep with me when his father is travelling. There's nothing sexual between us, but in another society I think there would be.
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: I would not be shocked if you had more than anything with your son, though in American society I wouldn't expect it, in the Judeo-Christian environment ....
Wife: Right. And so he wouldn't allow it, even though I know he would want it. Too bad, because we're so close that I think it would just make us closer. But all western psychology says that it would ruin his maturation process and interfere with his ability to have relationships with other women later.
CreepyOnlineChatGuy: I think this about ruining his maturation process may be a bit too far fetched. If it were permissible, would you suck your son? Animals do it in nature!!
Wife: Of course it's unreasonable. Hosea says that Son 2 wouldn't be able to separate a mother-figure from a lover-figure. I doubt that. Would I suck him? Yes, or fondle him, and vice versa. Personally, I wonder where better kids are supposed to learn than with the people they trust the most. It's not that it would be so very erotic for me, but that it would be very comfortable and loving. And yes, incest is completely natural in nature.
....
Is this fantasy or delusion? I wish I knew. I'm kind of rattled.
Oh my god.
ReplyDeleteI can see why you're rattled. Fantasy or no, that's creeping onto the line of predatory behavior w/r/t your child.
Yes, be rattled, for God's sake!
ReplyDeleteShe's articulating a fantasy, and given her precarious mental health, it's reasonable to expect that once she articulates it, particularly to someone dubbed "creepy chat guy" (who is definitely egging her on), she's only a step away from realizing it.
In fairness I'm the one who dubbed him "CreepyOnlineChatGuy" but yeah, it's pretty crazy.
ReplyDeleteI have a call into my attorney to find out if there are mandatory reporting requirements on this kind of stuff or what. Meanwhile I can't stop thinking of this story from three years ago.
Sorry, I garbled the link. It's this: http://hoseasblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/was-this-just-backrub.html
ReplyDeleteRegardless of how he is named or who named him, Creepy chat guy was absolutely leading your wife on, seducing her in the truest sense of the word. That makes him creepy in my book, and fucking dangerous, too. He's grooming her just as a pedophile grooms a target. Whether or not what wife says about Son #2 is true, Creepy chat guy is planting and nurturing the idea in her mind that incest is acceptable.
ReplyDeleteI know I sound strident, but if even the least bit of it is true, the damage being done to Son #2 is tremendous.
Crap. Re-reading the story from years ago definitely gives me major pause in the context of this new anecdote.
ReplyDeleteFantasy or not, you don't want to be explaining to a damaged child years from now that, "I thought it was just a fantasy," was the reason you didn't step in.